In conversation with Sarah B. Marks

H: Hello, I'm Harriet, Content Lead at Byway, and I'm sat here in a cosy GWR window seat joined by Sarah Marks.

S: Hello. I'm Sarah B Marks, and I make videos about flight free holidays and train travel.

H: I’m so delighted you picked this route from London Paddington to Bath for our conversation. It’s a lovely route. 

S: It really is. I’ve grown very fond of it. Oh, it's look, it’s brightening up.

H: In between gazing out the window on this typically grey but atmospheric winter morning, shall we first start with what got you first interested in train travel?

S: So it was actually during my masters course when one of my friends mentioned how damaging flying was for the climate. At that point, I was very much a frequent flier. I would go and holidays maybe 3 or 4 times a year, always flying. It was the default for me. As a teenager, I had a strong sense of wanderlust, really wanting to travel the world.

But I was very concerned about climate change, so I set myself a goal of flying less. Only a few weeks later, very shortly after my father had passed away, my mum had to go to Berlin for a work trip, and my sister asked me to go with her. At that point, I had zero experience with train travel. I just kept thinking, “how am I going to get the train to Berlin?”, and I was not looking forward to it. But I managed to book it, and I was well prepped. I had books, I had an iPad full of downloaded Parks and Recreation episodes, and a notebook and lots of Spotify playlists at the ready. On the journey, despite all these things I had to keep me entertained, my gaze kept getting pulled to the window. I found it immensely restorative. It gave me space for reflection. And by the end of the journey, I had fallen in love with train travel. 

H: That is such a lovely story. From there, how did that passion for train travel evolve? 

S: My partner is Turkish, so the following summer, we wanted to go to Turkey to see his family. So we set ourselves the challenge of getting from London to Istanbul, by train. It was on that journey that we took our first sleepr train. It was so exciting, and that just kind of deepened our love for the journey. It was also where he caught the bug for train travel. It was such an adventure, visiting places that we’d have otherwise never gone to. We actually flew back, and we really felt the difference in how we experienced the journey, and the outward journey by train was so much more enriching and varied. From then on, the more I've travelled by train, the more I've fallen in love with it. And, now I would definitely consider it an obsession.

H: It must have been lovely to share that experience together. I'm wondering whether that desire to share the magic of rail travel with others is a driving force behind your work now?

S: Yeah. There’s a lot of myth-busting. I first really considered it as a sacrifice for the climate. But actually, I fell in love with with the process. I saw that there was lots of people around me who also had just defaulted to holidays by plane, and I thought they would benefit from seeing what the alternative could look like. I was very into YouTube at the time as well. When I was in the earliest stages of documenting my own train travel, pretty much all of the videos I was watching about rail travel were by men, and I wanted to capture the sort of romance of train travel in a way that I wasn't really seeing. I wanted to share my kind of more romanticised relationship with train travel. A big motivation behind it is to inspire people to experience the joys of travelling in this way, in the same way that I have been able to experience it.

H: What are some of the things that you try to capture on your own travels that showcase best the beauty of travelling by train?

S: Firstly the views out of the train window. It is just so different being on a plane. First of all, the size of the windows are so much bigger compared to planes. You get a huge amount of light that you're surrounded by both sides with different views. 

The perfect example was my recent journey to Ireland. I'd never been to Ireland before, and me and my partner were sat in Euston station slightly worried about the long day of travel ahead. You have to get the train through Wales and then the ferry, and I was thinking, ‘how are we going to convince people that this is a fun way to go to Ireland’? Cut to us on the train in Wales, jumping from window to window because we had the Welsh sea side on one side and then the Snowdonia mountains on the other. It's the best way to experience a place. I always feel much more connected to nature when I'm travelling by train, compared to when you're flying and you're kind of basically travelling from one sterile airport to another.

One way someone put it to me recently was that when you travel by train, your soul catches up with you. And that's something I really wanted to try to communicate through my videos. Although it's it's slow, it's a more valuable way of using my time. So even though it's slower, for me, it’s real quality time.

H: That's a lovely answer. I've also done that journey before, and it is beautiful. How do you see slow travel evolving? 

S: I think the future of slow travel for me would be split into two parts. One would be the fact that I think it's pretty obvious that we need to make train travel cheaper. And then the other is more about holidays in general and how we do holidays. For me, I've found myself much more enamoured with experiences that are closer to home, and I think this train line we’re travelling on now is a perfect example. It's easy to become obsessed with the idea of a holiday being totally new experiences, and far away places. But on a route like this, you can have just as much life enriching experiences of seeing something familiar, but through new eyes. Seeing this route through the seasons, I take it a couple of times a week, and it's taught me how to see the beauty of the familiar.

H: So a big driver of slow travel is what can be gained by the traveller?

S: Yeah. I find airports quite stressful places. You worry about your liquids, you're often not going into the centre of where you actually want to be. You have to get there a couple of hours before. They're not nice places to be compared to travelling by train. Train stations often have a really interesting history, and beautiful architecture attached to them. I personally find train travel a lot more relaxing.

One consequence of choosing to travel in this way for holidays has meant that I've needed to be much more intentional about why I'm going on holiday, and who I'm going with. Whereas before I'd decide on a weekend away in Barcelona, honestly with no particular reason. But now, I've found a lot of my holidays are dictated by who I'm seeing or who I'm spending time with. Often it's visiting family and friends, which is much easier by train because you can visit multiple places easily. I think being on a train enables my brain to kind of be restored. It offers a more relaxing experience. If I'm really wanting to relax and switch off, then watching the landscape pass a train window is, for me, far more relaxing than dragging myself to an airport, through check in, and being shunted from one place to another as quickly as possible. 

H: We’re not far from Bath now. It’s a beautiful station, actually, isn't it? 

S: Yes, and when we approach you have a really dramatic introduction to the city because you can see the the limestone buildings over there, and Georgian buildings over there. And then the kind of more countryside, hills and the in the distance there. It's pretty dramatic, I love it.

H: I love that you mentioned the ability to stop off in multiple places.  

S: Yes, exactly: if you're taking the train you often are stopping in lots of places along the way. It enhances my holiday because it means that I can see my family and friends who don't maybe live in the same place that I do. So it could be meeting someone in Paris for lunch or, staying with friends in staying with family in Switzerland and then seeing friends in Austria. I also have family in Sweden. I went to Sweden with my mum. We stopped off in Amsterdam and stayed with her friend, and then went to Malmo to see my family and then up to Stockholm and back. We saw so many of our loved ones in that one trip, which you can't really, or you just don't do when you're flying. You might fly from one place to visit a friend, but for me it's much more special to incorporate seeing lots of people in different places, and experience alongside them, from the local perspective. My holidays feel more meaningful now. 

H: I love your emphasis on people. What do you think makes a good travel partner? 

S: That's a great question. I have the best train journeys with people who are curious, who are kind of looking out the window and interested as to what we might be seeing, even if we don't find out. It's that kind of wonder of seeing a landscape maybe, or villages that you're not familiar with and wondering what the history there is. Open minded and curious are the two most important characteristics.

H: How would you spend your first morning in a new place?

S: It depends on where I am. If I'm visiting family or friends, I'll just ask them what they want to do. It's often just spending quality time with them. If I’m somewhere where I’m not visiting someone, often it's going to be out in nature. No matter the weather.

H: How would you describe your perfect fit in three words? 

S: Nature. Quality time. Connection - to place. Whether that's understanding more about the long term history, or making sure I really appreciate where I am, and not taking that for granted. Does that count as three?

H: Haha yes, perfect. And how do you think train travel helps you lean into those aspects?

S: Well, I think travelling by train, you do inevitably feel more connected to the landscapes that you're travelling through. I feel like train travel is an organic way of experiencing a country. You can understand much more about the geography. When I was travelling by plane, I’d have no idea really where I was. When you're travelling by train, you really feel the distance, and you often end up understanding where you are within a place. I feel more connected to the landscape. You have a better understanding of where you are and what makes the place that you're travelling through distinct. I notice if the trees look different. One of my favorite train routes is Paris to Milan: you're travelling through the rural, countryside of France but then you get into the kind of dramatic, landscape of the Alps and the mountains, and you’ve watched it change before your eyes.

H: What’s your hot take on travel?

S: I think it’s the sun thing. That is quite unpopular. I'm not especially driven by wanting to find sun as I used to be.

H: Why do you think that is?

S: I feel like that relaxation people seek from sun is sort of offered to me through the journey, especially relaxing on a really long train journey. But yeah, sun. I think it's overrated.

H: Have you had any memorable rainy holidays?

S: Yeah. Scotland, Isle of Skye. This year in February, I went with my partner for our ten year anniversary. Obviously you're very unlikely to get sun when you go to Scotland. The wind was so heavy. One of the days, it was hard to walk around because it was so heavy and raining. We had the best time. It is that classic: there's no bad weather, only bad clothing. It's exhilarating and and invigorating. I like cold water swimming, so I made sure to do some of that. As long as the people that you're with are good company and you have a good attitude, it really doesn't matter what the weather is doing. 

We just saw deer. Oh. Look two horses. This is, actually, it was on this route I first saw muntjac.

H: Oh. Amazing. 

S: I saw this dog like creature on the side of the of the side of the tracks. Oh, what is that? And I looked at it, I looked up, it's a muntjac. I often see muntjac on this route: I see Muntjac, I see deer, I see bunnies, I see pheasants and then I see farm animals. I see horses and sheep and actually alpacas as well. Here's an alpaca farm. I don't know if we passed it already. 

H: Are you ready for a few quick-fire questions? Favorite train route?

S: This one. But otherwise the Caledonian Sleeper.

H:  Favorite ferry sailing? 

S: Oh, probably Wales to Ireland. That was one of the first ones I got, and you get the Snowdonian mountains as you're leaving the ferry port, and then the Wicklow Mountains as you arrive into Ireland. But there is also the ferry from Naples to Sicily. And as you're pulling out of Naples, you have a view of Mount Vesuvius, a twilight, which is pretty extraordinary. 

H: We’re both sat in the window seat, and my next question was going to be window seat or aisle seat?

S: Window seat, window seat definitely. 

H: Sleeper train or day train?

S: Sleeper train, easy. A long one, though.

H: Boats or trains? 

S: Trains. 

H: Favorite weekend break? 

S: Right. This is a bit of a cop out, but probably Bath because there's so much to see. I've lived there now for a year, but there's so much I haven't seen. So many beautiful walks you can do. And it's only an hour and 20 minutes from London. You've got the best of both worlds: history, culture, stunning architecture, but then beautiful countryside just on your doorstep. 

H: It’s so beautiful outside. Sometimes I can definitely feel like I look at one side, the window, and then you just gotta turn your head to me. 

S: Yeah, I definitely prefer this side. And now you'll start to see more willow trees the closer we get to the River Avon. There'll be more willow trees now. 

H: I love willow trees. Yeah, yeah. So lovely. Okay. Perfect. Back to the quick-fire. I don't know how many of these you've done, but do you have a favorite dining car experience? 

S: Yes. I did the Pullman dining experience on the way to Cornwall, and that was really cool because it's actually pretty good value for money. I think they do the services at 1 p.m. and 6 p.m. on weekdays. You don't have to upgrade your ticket to a first class ticket. You can just hop on with a standard ticket, and if there's room in the dining car, then you have white tablecloths. And I think the soup was pretty good as well. 

H: What was on the menu?

S: Yeah, I think it was a pea soup. I like soup. It was just so civilized to have white tablecloths.

H: Real China?

S: Real, yes. Real glasses. It makes such a difference. And it’s also one of my favorite routes down to Cornwall. Well, technically it's Plymouth, which is on the edge of Cornwall.

H: And that clink-clink sound of the china. You don’t hear it on a train very often. Maybe on the trolley. Anyway, I digress. Favorite train station? 

S: I do love Paddington. There's something about the polished limestone floor the white iron train shed. It's so bright in there. You can go into the first-class lounge if you've booked a berth on the sleeper train down from London to Penzance. There's a modern part, but then the other part is actually Queen Victoria's old waiting room, and they've got some of the original gold cornicing. I also love the branch line stations where you've got that sweet kind of wooden trimming on the edge hanging down over the platforms that always sparked my imagination. I love that.

And then I have to mention Milan Centrale. It's it's so magnificent. It's almost like a cathedral. In Milan Central you have the kind of tiled floors and beautiful stonework and frescoes. It does have a very dark history. But that's also what I love about train travel. Stations often reflect the the culture and the history and the politics of the place that you're in. They feel very distinct to wherever you are. 

H: Can you tell me about your most memorable moments travelling by train?

S: A few years ago when my partner and I went to Croatia, and we got the sleep train from Zurich to Zagreb. And on the way back, we'd booked berths in a six person couchette. I don't mind sharing: when I’ve travelled alone, I've always been with really lovely women in the female only couchettes. But my partner wasn’t as keen, so we just asked, “do you have any cabins that are free?”. And they said, “give us €20”. So we gave them €10 each to get an entire couchette to ourselves. The next morning was my birthday, and we woke up to views of the Swiss mountains and lakes. It was just the two of us in this six person coucette that we had all to ourselves. That that was definitely one of my favorite moments.

 Another one recently I took the new sleeper train from Brussels to Prague, and I met some really lovely people on it. I met another train enthusiast who taught me all about what bashers are – very distinct from trains spotters – bashers follow locomotives by being on the train, and he showed me his and how that works.

And then I met a lovely Canadian woman who I was literally watching her discover the magic of sleeper trains. She had never been on a sleeper train before, and we were going through, Saxony. And that kind of following the Rhine River. It was it was so stunning. And having these kind of connections with people that I was meeting on the train, that was really special.

Or, my most recent trip to Cornwall. It’s one of my favorite train journeys in the world, I'd have to say. It's very short. But it is probably one of the most scenic train journeys in Britain. Just at the end of it, as we were passing Carbis Bay, I saw a seal frolicking in the sea, from the train window. It was beautiful. 

H: Wow, what great stories. But train travel isn’t all plain sailing. Do you have any stories of train mishaps?

S: Of course. Seville. It was a friends group holidays, and my friend very graciously decided to take the train with me while everyone else flew. Our journey down was incredible. We got the train down from Paris to the Pyrenees and then had lunch in Barcelona and the day train down through the Spanish countryside. Incredible. When it came to the journey back, we were excited to get that sleeper train again. But it was cancelled. We were a bit worried at that point, but what we should have done really was just stay an extra night and just wait for the next train. But we decided to get the overnight coach. Never get the overnight coach. It was horrifying, but hilarious. We met some very interesting characters. It was a pretty nightmarish journey. And my poor friend, who’s usually a very happy-go-lucky-type, well it just broke her spirits. We got to London and started the big trip debrief. Even after that coach, sleep deprived and hungry, she turned to me and said, “Sarah, I would do it all again”.

H: What a note to end on. This is your stop, Bath. Thank you so much for sharing this journey and conversation with me, Sarah.

You can keep up to date with Sarah's adventures over on her Instagram, @Sarahbmarks.

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